The Engine Saga....

... aka Why not to buy anything from Westend Marine.

Since some of you have asked about it, I thought it appropriate to give a high level on the whole engine saga. Note, this isn't the new, sparkling blue engines that work a treat and do exactly what they're meant to do. These are the rubbish, half-arsed attempt at engines that cost us a court case, a few thousand in extra bills and delayed the project by about six months.

So the Westend saga...

First up, here's the company details and website so you know exactly the muppets we're dealing with:

Westend Marine Website

Sam's the main guy (or whatever name he uses this week) and will happily sell ice to eskimoes, but then deliver something that kind of resembles ice, but isn't actually ice. Instead, it's something he and his team of "engineers" have manufactured.

I digress. At the start of 2011, the boat project was progressing well and new engines were required. Brilliant, we thought. I enquired with all the big firms, then after doing some research, decided on acquiring a marinised pair of engines. Mermaid Marine (funnily enough, the company who I now have engines through) seemed far too cheap, so I went for the more expensive offerings of Westend Marine. Having checked around, there was no bad press about them, so contact was made and the order was placed. Here's the confirmation email I sent them:

19/04/2011
to westendmarine
 

Hi Sam,

Thanks for your time discussing our requirements last night. As requested, please find below a list of everything we need for our build:

2 x D2-55 engines
1 x right-hand gearbox
1 x left hand gearbox
1 x control head, cables, morse controls
Instrumentation & wiring

We're still unsure whether to go with keel cooling, so a price on the following would also be appreciated:

2 x strainers
2 x silencers
Price of 60mm wet exhaust pipe work per metre

Also, I'm not sure of our shaft size, but can you give me a rough idea on the price of flexible driveshaft couplings?

thanks,

Seems nice and simple enough, right? Well, they came back with a full spec matching the above, confirmed a payment plan (as we wouldn't be needing the engines straight away), and that was that. We kept in touch throughout the build, checking in with them regularly to see how our engines were progressing and getting additional requirements sorted for fitting the much anticipated engines.

Finally! The day dawned. Almost a year later, the engines were delivered. Now, I should note that at this point in time, I was a tad worried. The night before I'd contacted "Sam" to confirm all was well, and he'd said there had been problems sourcing a left-hand drive gearbox, but that two right-hand gearboxes "wouldn't be a problem" and "wouldn't affect handling". Hmmmm.

Anyway, this is from the day the engines arrived:

02/05/2012
       
to Westend
Sam / Niki,

We received the engines today and I'm very disappointed to say we'll be sending them back.

I have had them thoroughly inspected and was given the following notes:

- Both engines appear to be different models
- One engine & gearbox combo appears to be reworked, with rounded nuts, etc
- One engine is missing it's identifier plate and the serial / model number has been ground off the bellhousing
- Engine feet welding is of a poor quality on one engine & cross threaded on the other
- Hosing has been badly run, already rubbing against a number of bolts and will need to be changed
- Both turbo connections are different

In light of the above, I'll be organising a courier to return both engines, the exhaust & the matching morse controls and would request that you arrange a full refund.
Please call me if you wish to discuss.


Here's a pic of one of the engines. Note the spray paint all around it? Yep, that's because it was assembled (poorly, I might add), then stuck on a pallet and sprayed with some form of paint ("Volvo green" according to "Sam", even though as you will soon read, Volvo "haven't had these engines yet") to hide any issues.


This second shot is included for good measure - see that ground out area? That's where the serial number should be.....

And this was "Sam's" response:

westendmarine <westendmarine1@aol.com>
   
03/05/2012
       
to me
Hi Nathan

I tried to call you this afternoon but you were not available.  I would like
to address your points as follows:

The engines are supplied to me with the engine number removed, this is
standard practise as I buy the warranty from Perkins myself and I provide
the warranty fom my factory.  As Niki was away, our serial number was not
placed on the engines though it should have been.  The models of the engines
I can assure you are the very latest Perkins produce.  Even Volvo have not
had this particular model as yet, as Volvo use the old type block with the 4
bolt mount seawater pump, now all the new ones have a 2 bolt elliptical
mount which is what you have.  It is the same engine but it comes in 2
different versions as you can see, one with the pump at the front, the other
at the back.  This does not detract from the performance of the engine.

I do not understand when you comment about the engine and gearbox
combination being reworked, we put everything together in the factory the
engine comes bare and we assemble everything, bellhousing, gearbox etc,
neither component has been used on another engine nor are any of the parts
second hand, all the parts we use are new.

Engine feet, my engineers are experienced welders, if you have any problems
with the feet, please send it back and I will gladly replace it.  I can also
replace any fitting which is cross threaded.

Regarding hosing, we have never had a problem with hosing before as we have
been producing a similar engine for years, but rerouting is not a problem.

Regarding the turbo connections, once I have read the paragraph I came to
the conclusion that you have been very picky or someone is poisoning your
brain.  If there is a slight variation so what?  The engine performance is
exactly the same.

Finally let me tell you that you do not realise how much of a bargain these
engines are, to replace these by Volvo with the amount of equipment I have
supplied you, you would have to pay at least 40 to 50% more, so what is the
problem?  There is nothing that cannot be overcome and sorted out, I have
tried to ring you, when you have a minute please call me, I have gone to
great lengths to get these engines sorted quickly,

Best regards

Sam

Westend Marine (Batley) Ltd
01924 478060
07714 306746

I don't think I need to pick "Sam's" email apart any more than is obvious, but that first paragraph really does it for me. Sold as "Volvo/Perkins" and "Volvo haven't even had these yet"? And "supplied with serial numbers removed"? Wow.

There was a lot of back and forth about this before I had enough and engaged a solicitor. I won't include all the correspondence, but here's a short summary of what he found (taken directly from correspondence with Westend):

  • We have made enquiry directly of Perkins. The result of that enquiry does not accord with your statement either as to the presence or absence of engine numbers or as to Perkins warranty arrangements. The presence of the Perkins engine number is essential for historical accuracy and supply from Perkins of correct spare parts.
  • It appears that one gearbox bears the plate of PRM Marine Limited (“PRM”), showing a serial number. The other gearbox shows no such information, but it appears that a serial number has been ground off. Enquiry has been made of an authorised distributor and agent for PRM, and we were informed that every PRM gearbox should display the maker’s serial number as the usual essential information to enable provenance to be verified and correct spare parts supplied when needed.
  • The engines supplied by you are not recognised by Volvo or Perkins as “Volvo/Perkins” engines. Neither can they properly be described as “D2-55” engines. One engine has been identified as part of a surplus lot sold by DiPerk (the sole authorised distributor for Perkins engines in Great Britain) in or about February 2011, without any warranty express or implied, to a remanufacturer and dealer in England at a very low price, that buyer then selling the lot onwards almost immediately without carrying out any work to the engines. The other engine was initially sold by Perkins to an Italian tractor manufacturer in Padua, Italy, in or about April 2010. The proper designation of these engines is “Perkins 404D-22T”.
  • The boatyard’s engineer has in any event refused to install the engines and gearboxes in our client’s boat, citing amongst his reasons:

(i) Poor welding and fabrication of the mounting brackets, and doubts as to the ability of the mounting brackets to cope with the thrusts and loads that may be expected in service.

(ii) Poor welding and fabrication of the exhaust injection bends.

(iii) Poor mounting of the water pumps, and non-identical positioning of the water pumps indicating that the engines are not “identical”.

(iv) Lack of documentation; the engines have no documentation at all, including test certificates and emissions readings.

(v) Lack of maker’s identity plate on one of the engines (and also on one of the gearboxes), and consequent significant difficulty in bespeaking correct spare parts in the future.





Here's a copy of the engineer's report that the lawyer is referring to:


While all this was going on, I contacted Hampshire Trading Standards in September 2012 to see what they could do about it. The answer? Nothing. Not even a response.

I also contacted Apollo Duck, the website Westend sells through and voiced my concerns, backed up with appropriate proof. Again, what did they do? Nothing. Not even a response.

I then brought the matter to court and judgement was made in my favour, after "Sam" failed to respond. Bailiffs were called in, at which time "Sam" suddenly resurfaced, advising he'd been ill and overseas, and now wanted the case moved to Huddersfield. Unbelievably, the court allowed this to happen.

The first hearing went well - the judge confirmed what I'd said was correct and that the engines had to be refunded. The ancillaries (ie. morse controls, etc) were set for another hearing. Finally I had some money back. Unfortunately though, the next hearing would take another few months (we're in early 2013 now) and cost another few thousand - let alone another 500 mile return trip to Huddersfield - so I decided not to pursue the matter further.

So what's been learnt from this?


1.) Under NO circumstance, ever, ever, ever use Westend Marine. Their quality of work is terrible, they offer a lot and deliver very little, and even though they have "30 years of experience in the marine industry", don't seem to be able to build anything of decent quality.

2.) Somehow, the marine industry is allowed to get away with poor quality work with minimal recourse. Having discussed this with countless folks over the course of this debacle, everyone had or knew of someone who'd had a similar experience.

3.) Trading Standards and the Court system are flawed. Trading Standards didn't bother to do anything, and the Court System's countless forms, fees and nonsensical system of hearings is a joke.

The light at the end of the tunnel. 
Whilst this may all seem doom and gloom, the light at the end of the tunnel has been Mermaid Marine. Here's their website:

Mermaid Marine Website

I couldn't recommend them more. Accommodating, willing to assist, and an excellent product. If you need an engine, seriously consider these guys - as everyone likes photos, here's a pic of one of my lovely, new, working, engines:




Anyway, enough of this nonsense about engines.

10 comments:

  1. As A qualified diesel fitter I shudder
    you poor people
    When you get here I would like your help to tear apart Foxes brokerage n UK
    Sorry I never saw your project via metalboat.org

    ReplyDelete
  2. Oh bugger, for £40.000 my brother recently bought a 61 ft wide beam from 'Sam' at Anglo marine. This was from an auction site. 1 month later the boat is still sitting behind some shops in wakefield, (Sam promised he could get it out and delivered for £2000.00!) delay after delay and now he says a bigger crane needs to be used and of course; more money. Turns out there is a 8ft fence, lamp post and tree in the way, I am looking as to whether there is an offence of deception here and getting the Law involved. Sam offered yhis for sale, apparently making it virtually impossible for the buyer to collect.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh hell... well, if it's the same Sam, your brother's in for a lot of pain! Honestly, Sam's as greasy as they come but the courts seemingly can't touch him. Best wishes to your brother getting this resolved....

      Delete
  3. Its now 2018 and sam ( west end marine is still doing shit apparently( some leopards dont change their spots)
    i bought a supposed D 55 also that was supplied to me in Portugal.
    The engine is a jole/ the finish is disgusting/ the ancillaries are unproffesional/ the control panel has nothing to do with what was supplied.
    I emailed and tried to be civil but a " bounder" doesnt react to decent conversation.
    This guy and his out fit are crap.
    He has for all intents and purposes screwed up my plan to refurbish this old boat.
    My downfall was distance and he capitalised on that.
    All i can do now is say do not use this guy not even if he is giving the engine to you!

    ReplyDelete
  4. AVOID AT ALL COSTS!!

    If I buy a reconditioned engine, I expect it to arrive within 2 weeks in full working order, I don't feel this is unreasonable. However, what I actually got was this:
    - Having to constantly chase up when the engine will be delivered, no effort was made from their end to communicate anything. If I wasn't told excuses weeks after ordering and "Next week, I promise", the person on the other end would just hang up on me.
    - On the rare occasion I did get hold of "Sam", the guy kept asking for more money for various reasons/parts despite me already having paid the full price of the engine.
    - Empty promises.
    - A part was sent back using a tracked service and despite having evidence it had been delivered and signed for by one of the "engineers" they claimed they had not received it.

    I ordered an engine of a particular brand, however what actually arrived was an engine that has been traced back to a Peugeot 504 2.3l diesel that has various parts of the particular brand of engine I thought I'd purchased attached to it that looks like it was dropped in some blue paint. On first attempt at starting the engine, a load of rust came flying out, then the starter motor blew. Having had enough of dealing with the scumbag Mudhafar Yassien Al-Kazhraji, or "Sam" as he calls himself, I decided to source a new one from a much more reliable source, which at this stage was anywhere else. The new starter motor arrived and worked great, however on the second trip out to sea the engine suddenly blew out a load of oil and is now comletely f'd.

    Having done some research on the company, I can find no evidence of their 30 years of trading, although 10 years ago they also claim to had been trading for 30 years.

    ReplyDelete
  5. All this is rubbish and the court dismissed it because he didn’t have enough proofs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I’m guessing you either work for West End marine, or are seriously deluded.

      The court required Sam to take back the engines and refund me in the end, so no, they didn’t dismiss it. And as for all the other stories out there confirming how rubbish West End are, well they speak for themselves.

      Delete
    2. But of course you claim I didn’t have enough proof (looking past the pictures and emails from above)... can you enlighten us with why this is “rubbish” as you so claim?

      Delete
  6. The "volvo" they sold me was a piece of crap... far below what i expected.. the loom and start board and accompanying diagram was not sufficient... very dissapointing...
    i thought he was one of "us"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don’t suppose it was a “D2-55” spray painted green by chance?

      Sorry to hear these rip-off merchants are still causing people problems.

      I’d suggest leaving them a google review as that’s the only way to warn others about Westend’s terrible business practices..

      Delete

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